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Home  Daily News GEOLOGIST CORIC: WHY THE PYRAMIDS ARE NOT THE PYRAMIDS
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GEOLOGIST CORIC: WHY THE PYRAMIDS ARE NOT THE PYRAMIDS |
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Written by Merima Bojic
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- 11.05.2007 |
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Here is yet another geologist who publicly denounced the Foundation’s project and the research in the
Bosnian
Valley of the Pyramids. His name is Dr. Stjepan Èoriæ. In this
interview he is explaining why he thinks that the pyramids are not man
made structures and he is also talking about his indecisiveness and
confusion when talking about the Pyramid of the Sun and its perfect
geometrical shape, its cardinal points and the stone spheres in Bosnia
and Herzegovina.
INTERVIEW with DR STJEPAN ÈORIÆ
Merima Bojic
M: DR. Æoriæ, can you hear me?
Æ: Yes, I can hear you, go on.
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M:
O.K. The reason for this interview is the fact that I noticed that you
are one of the opponents to the Foundation’s project and the pyramids
in Visoko and I would like to know why and what do you think about all
this?
V: Do you have a direct question or do you want me to comment?
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M: Just give me your opinion on that. Why do you think that those structures are not the pyramids?
Æ:
I was there only once but I was born in that neighborhood, near Kreševo
, which is about 24-25 kilometers far from Visoko. I used to work a lot
there before the war and I am very familiar with the geological
situation over there. I was there on those excavated
areas last year and what I saw looked natural, and I found nothing
which would make me think that those layers of dirt and blocks were man
made. I am just a little bit confused with geomorphology, meaning the
perfect geometrical shape of that hill. Although,
such geomorphology is often present and it’s a natural process, so
everything over there is natural. I saw nothing that indicates
otherwise, meaning those structures are not man made.
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M:
DR. Èoriæ, you mentioned that you are a little bit confused with the
perfect geometry of the hill that looks like a pyramid, but we are
talking here about several hills which look like the pyramids.
Æ:
Those are the two sides that confuse me and the line between the sides
of the pyramid, which is unclear; I never saw something like that in
nature before, I mean such geometrical shape. I cannot find a single
argument to confirm that in fact those structures are man made, just
those two or three sides of the hill, because there is no explanation
for that. The actual hill is geologically composed, those conglomerates
for which Osmnagiæ is claiming that are man made, are natural
formation. This means that I don’t believe that any of that is man
made.
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M: Excuse me, but you never visited the Pyramid of the Moon or Plješevica hill while the excavations were taking place?
Æ: No, I never went there
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M: However, I went there and I saw neat blocks, stone blocks which are clean cut and laid down.
Æ:
It is possible, I didn’t see them but I am planning to go there before
Easter, sometime in April. I will be going to Bosnia and I will see
those locations that I have seen only on the pictures, including the
blocks with the wavy texture/pattern for which one Egyptian geologist
is claiming that they were purposely made like that, which a complete
nonsense. Such wavy pattern or texture is naturally
made and is found near the lakes and coastlines, where the work of
waves is noticeable, meaning it is totally natural. I never saw those
blocks but I am going to check it out, because I am very interested to
see them. ,
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M: Of course,
Æ:
I am looking forward to see everything that I have been seeing only on
the pictures and their web. I have a very good and positive opinion
about this project and I support Mr. Osmanagiæ and I would like him to
be objective; he should figure out if those structures are man made or
not. However, my opinion is that I saw nothing man made but it doesn’t
mean that I am right and it doesn’t mean that the pyramids do not
exists. I am just telling you what I saw.
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M:
You are a geologist, and Professor Govedarica told me that he is an
archaeologist and he told me that he couldn’t explain the stone balls.
He told me that I need to ask a geologist. So, you are a geologist, can
you explain those stone balls?
Æ:
I saw those stone balls on the pictures; I think those which they found
near Tuzla-made of granite. Such stone balls are not naturally made;
granite does not come like that in nature spherically shaped. I think
that they are man made because there are many sandstone balls in nature
but nothing like this, made of granite. I never saw such perfect stone
balls; I don’t know what to tell you.
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M: What do you think who made them?
Æ: I don’t believe that they are natural.
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M: So, how are they made than?
Æ: I don’t know that.
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M: You have no hypothesis, meaning what their purpose was?
Æ:
No, I don’t really know that and I don’t even think about such things;
who made them and why. I can just tell you from my experience what is
naturally made and what is artificial. So, I never saw such stone balls
in nature, made of granite and I am not familiar with any literature
that talks and explains the stone balls that are made of granite. There
are many different rocks which secrete spherical stones but like these
ones, made of granite, I never saw anything like that before.
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M: How do you explain the underground tunnels and intersections at angles of 45 degrees?
Æ:
Those tunnels could be naturally made but I don’t know if they are at
angles of 45 degrees. I saw on their web site those tunnels and if
everything is true, if those tunnels are really at angles of 45
degrees, and if the entire network is mapped, well… than it’s is
strange. It could be one thing; the possible cavities existed and they
can very well be at angles of 45 degrees.
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M: And 90 degrees?
Æ:I have to see that. I never entered those tunnels and I am looking forward to see the tunnels as well. You
see, there are many tunnels over there, the natural caverns, because
water carried and washed away lots of the material and that megalith
which he (Osmanagic) is mentioning was also transported. I think that
megalith is a large rock which was transported by water; water can
transport anything, that’s not a problem, and it could also shape the
rock.. All I can tell is that I saw that on the photos.
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M: You mentioned that you saw the interview which I conducted with Professor Imamoviæ,
Æ: Yes, I saw that.
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M: And what is your comment on what he said?
Æ:
Many things that he mentioned are correct. However, I don’t know what
their relationship is, I think they are in some type of a quarrel,
perhaps some type of the private quarrel. However, he says that he
doesn’t wish to go and visit the excavations in question, because he is
very familiar with the terrain. I think that he should go to see those
locations and state his opinion one way or the other. He distanced
himself too much but such things are moving Bosnia forward, and all
those who have something against this project should go and research
those locations and than state their opinions.
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M: I agree. Can you tell me anything about Gornje Vratnice?
Æ: I don’t know anything about that, I haven’t seen it yet. What is it, can you tell me what it is?
M: Well, you have to go to see it, and they think that it could be a possible shrine.
Æ: Well, when it comes to archaeology, I am no expert for that, and I do not wish to get involved in such discussions. Any
remains and archaeological findings, I have no comment, since I am not
competent for such things. So, I have no comments about that.
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M: OK.
Æ: Can I just tell you how and why my curiosity arose about the pyramid over there in
Bosnia ? We have here in Vienna one project about the seashells and fossils which was assigned in
Bosnia ’s freshwaters and lakes, and I read that Osmanagiæ started with
the excavations. So, I was very interested to see the excavated
material and I was looking for fossils. I absolutely don’t wish to get
involved or interfere with his project. So everything I see and comment
is my private business and I do not represent any institution when I
make my comments.
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M: OK. You mentioned that you are confused with the perfect geometry of those hills in
Bosnia , but how can you explain the cardinal points? Those sides of the hills are aligned with the compass points.
Æ: I can’t explain that. It could be natural.
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M: And the Northern star as well?
Æ: I don’t know and who knows if it’s true? As much as I have read about the astrology, they could be manipulating here.
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M: Dr. Coriæ, they did thermal imaging, satellite and topographic analyses and everything has been confirmed.
Æ:
That could be possible but I can give only my opinion about the geology
and what you are talking about is astronomy and astrology. I do not
wish to discuss such things because I am no expert for that.
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M: Well, I can tell you that you are one of the most honest people that I spoke to
C : Thank you, I hold no monopoly over the truth and I am telling you what I observed over there and that’s all.
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M: When are you going to Visoko?
Æ: I will go to visit
Bosnia before Easter, at the beginning of April and I will definitely visit Visoko to see what is going on. I
am very much interested to see the excavated sites and I am interested
to see the sandstones, and based on those textures, one can easily tell
how and what type of water shaped them that way and the original depth.
It will be also clear where that material came from and how old those
layers are.
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M: So, you think that those hills are layered for sure; there are not man made structures? C:
Those rocks are layered in Zenica-Sarajevo basin in the Miocene, the
upper Miocene, let me just open one map and I will tell you roughly how
old those hills are. This is geologically very well described and; the
geologists from
Sarajevo ’s Geological Institute have researched that area very well,
and described it. You see, there are geological maps where it states
how old those hills/ rocks are and how thick they are. Let’s see, that
is the upper Miocene and is about 11-15 million years old. No one knows for sure, one million more or less, the middle and upper Miocene.
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M: Prof. Imamoviæ told me that those were the house foundations and remains from pre-history and the Roman age.
Æ: It is possible, that’s archaeology that you are talking about now.
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M: Well, how could it be both?
Æ:
No, those are rocks which were formed as I told you already, and they
could have been carved and cut and used for the house foundations, do
you understand? Those rocks were used for the construction of some
objects.
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M: Don’t you think that they could have been used for the construction of the pyramids?
Æ: You mean man made?
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M: Yes ,
Æ:
I think they are not man made, they are natural, and such conglomerates
are stretching in Sarajevo-Zenica basin. I don’t know how thick that
layer is but, perhaps 100 meters or more. Not a single human hand could
build such large hills/objects; you have them all over
Bosnia , especially near Travnik, Zenica, Kakanj-all over. There are
many good geological maps from that area. Perhaps, you should contact
the Geological Institute in Ilidža-
Sarajevo - they are very competent for these things.
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M:
So, how could Professor Imamoviæ say those things, he is not a
geologist but archaeologist. Do you not agree with him on this?
Æ: That’s his business whatever he says.
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M:
But he is not a geologist. He told me that geology and archaeology have
nothing in common, and as an archaeologist he was explaining the stone
balls and their composition.
Æ: I am afraid you have to ask him that question.
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M: I would like to know what you think about all that.
Æ: I don’t understand, are you asking me about Pr. Imamovic and his statements or the stone balls?
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M: Well, if he is not a geologist how could he tell me that those stone balls resulted from the Ice Age? You
told me that you saw that interview, and you as a geologist are telling
me that those stone balls are man made, You just told me that granite
does not come naturally spherically shaped like that.
Æ: What I have seen on the pictures looks man made, and I am referring to those found near Teoèak,
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M: OK. ,
Æ:
Such stone balls could not result from glaciers, as Pr. Imamovic
mentioned. Those that I saw on their web seem to be man made, but who
made them and when, I have no idea. There are many spherical objects in
nature but nothing like that. They have to be man made but as I
mentioned, I just saw the photos.
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M: Dr. Barekat from Egypt said the same thing, but Dr. Robert Schoch, a geologist from
USA said that there are no geological explanations for those stone
spheres, and Pr. Imamovic said that they resulted from the glaciers.
So, how can someone like me find what the truth really is?
Æ: Aha, well, you have to decide what to believe and what makes sense to you.
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M: Well, it is logical. If granite does not come spherically shaped like that naturally, than it has to be man made.
Æ: I think it is man made, because such stone balls made of granite are not natural but artificial.
M: So, you think that professor Imamovic is wrong?
Æ: Well, when it comes to those stone balls, they are not natural, they have perfect spherical shape.
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M: Ok, I think that you have answered many of my questions and I would like to ask you now about Dr .Barakat from
Egypt , he is a geologist who researched that entire area and confirmed
the existence of the pyramids. He said that everything there was man
made, and I also met Dr. Mohammed I. Ally; we went together to the
plateau of the Moon Pyramid. He was very surprised and he also told me
that everything there is man made.
Æ: You know, the geologists from Egypt can be good geologists in
Egypt .
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M: What do you mean?
Æ: There are many good geologists in
Bosnia .
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M: Yes, but many of them are unemployed.
Æ: I know, but the ones who have a lot of experience are those in Sarajevo, and they are very familiar with geology of
Bosnia and Herzegovina . You have to ask them about these things and
their opinion, they know much more than those geologists from
Egypt .
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M: Do geologists research rocks?
Æ: Yes
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M: Well, one concrete block looks the same in Egypt and in
Bosnia .
Æ:
Well, I don’t know what are they comparing and what they have over
there but all the conglomerates that they have on Visocica hill are all
natural conglomerates.
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M: The Institute from
Tuzla did some lab analyses and they said those concrete blocks were poured at the scene.
Æ: I don’t believe it.
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M: The Civil Institute from
Tuzla gave that statement sir.
Æ: I don’t believe it. That has to be a mistake. My colleagues geologists from
Tuzla stated that it was all natural formation.
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M:
Dr. Coric, I was there when they had a press conference and they stated
that they conducted many lab analyses. They confirmed that those
structures were man made and according to them, those concrete blocks
were poured at the scene. They also said that those blocks are much sturdier than any other blocks found in that area and the entire
Bosnia and Herzegovina .
Æ:
I don’t believe it. I would take those samples and send them to
different local and foreign institutions, and I would request different
opinions. It could be only calcium-carbonate, which resulted in the
connecting materials of those conglomerates. I think when conducting such analyses, you have to send them to 3 different institutions, and you have to compare the results.
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M: Would you be interested in conducting those analyses?
Æ:
NO, I DON’T HAVE THE TIME, and I don’t do such things. Some of my
colleagues are experts for those things, my specialty is different. I
am a geologist and paleontologist, and I never conducted any similar
analyses.
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M: What would it take for you to be convinced that those structures are perhaps man made?
Æ:
What would it take? Well, it would take some remains and signs of the
human activity, and I never saw any remains, artifacts, no signs of human
activity. There are no blocks over there which were man made, those are
natural hills. When I went to visit there last year, they were showing
me some sandstone plate, about 20 cm long and they showed me something
that looks like a stair. That is simply a normal sandstone, which could
be found anywhere in nature. Everything that I have seen so far in
those hills is natural- there is nothing artificial.
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M:
But you mentioned that you never visited the pyramid of the Moon. There
are some blocks there that look as if perfectly cut and laid down.
Æ: I have not seen that yet, but I would like to.
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M: You can also see that on the Foundation’s web site.
Æ: Everything I have seen on their web is possibly natural, including the fractures; it is all possibly naturally formed.
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M: No, I was talking about those perfect clean cut blocks,
Æ: But they were not cut, that is the result of the tectonic activity.
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M: At such perfect angels?
Æ: What do you mean? It is possible.
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M: So, why do those hills look like the pyramids?
Æ: I don’t know why they have that geomorphic shape, I really don’t know.
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M: Why is the Moon Pyramid terrace like shaped?
Æ: I haven’t seen that, I have to look into that.
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M: Did you ever travel to
Latin America ?
Æ: No, unfortunately
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M: Some pyramids have that terrace- shape look.
Æ: I never saw those pyramids, just on the pictures, but I have not seen any of these pyramids in Bosnia that resemble those in
Latin America . They don’t look the same.
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M:
Well, I never said that they were the same. None of the pyramids are
identical and some of them are terrace- like shaped just like the Moon
Pyramid.
Æ: Well, I would have to go and see all that but based on what I have seen on the pictures; they don’t resemble those in
Latin America .
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M: As I said, all those pyramids are different.
Æ: Excuse me?
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M: I guess you have to see all that; it is hard to judge from the pictures.
Æ: You are right; may I just ask you if you have any opinion about those so-called pyramids?
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M: You know what, I am not a geologist or an archaeologist; I am majoring in history and Political science here in
Los Angeles . However, based on what I have seen, everything seems to
me as if it was man made. You are a geologist, and you said that Mother
Nature could create many things but once when you see the plateau of
the Moon Pyramid, you won’t be that much suspicious anymore.
Æ: That’s OK. You have your own opinion?
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M:
As I said, I am not a geologist or archaeologist, it seems to me that
way, and in addition to that, Dr. Ally told me that those structures
are man made.
Æ: It’s OK. I was just asking if you had your own opinion about this.
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M: I just gave you my opinion.,
Æ:
I asked you this question because I noticed in your interview with Pr.
Imamovic, you tried to prove your point of view, and for such a project
it would be important to …..,
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M: Let me explain, I told Pr. Imamoviæ that I met the geophysicists from Belgrade and I also told him about the geophysicists from
Germany , but he tried to misinform me. He said that those people were
just some students. I was there, I met those people, and I noticed that
Pr. Imamovic wanted to misinform me.
Æ:
I agree with you, but when working on some projects, you have to be
open- minded. You are not supposed to be subjective, because it could
influence the outcome of your project.
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M: I agree.
Æ: I wanted to tell you that it is much easier to work on the project with an objective attitude. ,
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M: I sincerely wanted to be objective, but it is hard for anyone to be objective with Pr. Imamovic.
Æ: I don’t know that, I never spoke to him.
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M: Well, I did, and as one professor, he should have conducted himself in the proper fashion.
Æ:
That’s OK. It was just my impression from that interview. You asked
many provocative questions, which is fine; the questions sometimes have
to be provocative. Overall, the interview was interesting. However, you
had our own opinion…
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M:
well, how could someone not have an opinion? You saw from that
interview, he said that there is no need for him to visit the locations
in question. He has never even visited those locations.
Æ: Well, that’s his business.
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M: And this is my business.
Æ: But, you are not here to tell your opinion! You are here to research the facts and to find the truth..
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M: Well, that’s exactly what I am doing, and I didn’t know why Pr. Imamovic was misinforming me.
Æ: That says more about him. If he does not want to visit those locations, that says a lot more about his attitude.
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M: Yes, indeed.
Æ: That is his attitude, he doesn’t want to go there to see those locations and …,
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M: Tell me where are you employed Dr. Coric?
Æ: I work for the geological institute here in
Vienna ; I work with sediments and mapping, which
means that I spend a lot of time in nature. I have 3 field trips every
month, meaning my job is to recognize the rocks and their shapes and to
determine what sediments were formed within the aquatic environment and
so on. For instance, the same rocks as those in Visoko, and in addition
to that, I am also a paleontologist, I research the fossils.
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M: You just told me that I was very subjective but I get the feeling that you are subjective too when it comes to this project.
Æ: I don’t understand.
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M:
You told me that I was very subjective, but I can see that you are
subjective as well when it comes to the pyramids in Visoko.
Æ: No, it’s OK. When someone is working on a project…
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M: I asked you a question. You never conducted any research there in
Bosnia but you are already claiming that those hills and rocks, created naturally, water carried certain blocks.
Æ:
That’s right. Any geologist that deals with sediments understands this.
You can determine this even from the photos. I have to go and see if
those rocks resulted from layers of sediments, which is the basic thing
for any geologist to figure this out.
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M:
I am sorry, I am not a geologist, but would it be the same as if one
doctor looked at his patient and claimed right a way what type of a
disease the patient has, without even conducting any analyses?
Æ: Excuse me but that is not the same.
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M: Let’s say, one doctor looks at one of your photos and claims right a way that you have a tumor...
Æ: Excuse me but this is not the same. The sediments are easy to recognize, I was there and that was enough.
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M: Is it possible that you may have seen some rocks, possibly just sediments?
Æ:
We went; well I was with my colleagues and we were hiking up that hill,
all the way from Visoko and it took us about 4 or 5 hours. So, we had
an opportunity to see that entire area and those rocks.
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M: But this was more than one year ago?
Æ: The rocks are rocks, regardless, one year or millions of years ago.
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M: They have excavated quite a bit since that time.
Æ: I am looking forward to see all that.
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M: Yes, it’s going to be interesting.
Æ: I would like to ask Mr. Osmanagiæ to allow me to take some photos of those rocks, they are very interesting.
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M: I don’t think that you are going to have any problems with that.
Æ: That’s great, even better.
M:
You gave me many answers to my questions and I would like to thank you
for that. I hope to see you in Visoko, and I wish you all the best.
C: All the best to you too.
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