by Simplicio (EclisseForum)
We are taking advantage of an apparent lull in proceedings to respond to the many accusations made by Debertolis against us and Irna. It is a fact that the owner of the SBRG domain, - which, as already explained, is a multidisciplinary research group that is involved (or has been involved until recently) in the "Bosnian Pyramids" affair - has accused us and anyone else who "dares" to ask him uncomfortable questions, of acting in bad faith, and being responsible for shameless lies.
One of the latest episodes involves none other than Irna. Via the catastrophist website Nibiru 2012.it , Debertolis tried to put pressure on her to remove the links to the Eclisse investigative articles that she had published on her blog.
Usually, Dr. Debertolis, whose overriding concern is that of avoiding confrontation, manages to neatly sidestep addressing any question of real interest, regardless of its context. One such example is to be found on Nibiru 2012, where Debertolis writes: "Irna, let me emphasize again, you cannot behave improperly elsewhere and then demand to be treated with respect and consideration here. I would have no difficulty in responding to your questions, but I refuse to do so, because it’s you who’s asking them. (Orig.: Irna, ribadisco il concetto, non puoi comportarti in maniera scorretta altrove e poi pretendere rispetto e considerazione qui. Non avrei difficoltà a replicare alle tue domande, ma non lo faccio perché sei proprio tu a porle.)" Obviously, according to Debertolis, the particular piece of misconduct of which Irna was guilty was that of highlighting our investigation.
Following on from this extract, I would like to renew the invitation that I have already extended on this forum, and repeat Irna’s request: provide examples of lies and misrepresentations on the Eclisse webpages, and we will immediately make the necessary adjustments and rectifications.
In the meantime, let’s look back at what happened this summer during the Mike Tate affair, so that everyone can judge for themselves the honesty and credentials of the characters involved, and ask why these people are going to such inordinate lengths to brand our research "bogus," the work of fundamentally dishonest people.
A brief foreword
To understand the situation, you also need to understand something about the online "Bosnian pyramids" communication "hierarchy".
The first thing to get to grips with is this three-sided relationship:
1. the www.piramidasunca.ba site: This website, as explained early on in our investigative articles, belongs to Semir Osmanagic, "father" of the Bosnian pyramids, and founder of the Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun. It is from here that most of the news items concerning the non-existent Bosnian Pyramids originate, the editorial line being: " … anything that supports our conclusions is good." It was against this background that one Mike Tate wrote an article concerning the decoding of sound files recorded by the SBRG - the research group headed by Debertolis - from the top of the hill christened the Pyramid of the Sun. The Mike Tate article can therefore be found on piramidasunca.ba site at the following link.
2. Also working in close association with the Osmanagic site is the website run by Nenad Djurdjevic - someone whom we have briefly discussed here - whose domain name is http://www.bosnian-pyramid.org. This is one of several sites reporting “news” from the Bosnian pyramids.
3. Last in the list of websites involved in this affair is http://www.sbresearchgroup.eu, owned by Professor Debertolis, the site of the multidisciplinary SBRG, who have been engaged in "studies" of the pyramid "anomalies". It was this group that was responsible for producing and publishing sound files in connection with the "whispering pyramids": see here.
Let’s wind the clock back to June: to be absolutely precise, 19th June, 2012.
On 19th June 2012, this article by Mike Tate appeared on the Foundation website. The article states that the signal recorded at the top of the pyramid has been decoded, and various theories put forward concerning its nature, but it is not so much the content of the article (about which we are extremely sceptical) that is of primary interest here, but rather the series of strange events that followed its publication.
If you go to the link referred to in paragraph (1), you will find some links to the Nenad Djurjevic site (2), as well as the ones listed below:
As you can see, these are mp3 files.
To be precise, the names are "Sonda_Deset.mp3" and "Sun 700Hz Max Freq.x800x800.mp3"
The first oddity to note is that the links are not working. As it happens, there was a mistake when they were inserted - not in the correct form – by Mike Tate in the article on the Foundation site. However, an analysis of the html code on the webpage reveals the following "parent folder":
In summary, the article written by Mike Tate on piramidasunca.ba contains links to files on the Nenad Djurjevic site, bosnian-pyramid.org.
3 Days after Publication - 22 June 2012
Three days after the publication of the article by Mike Tate on the Osmanagic website, we captured the following screenshot, which, from 21st June, as explained in the next section, gave rise to some heated exchanges. As evident from this page on Djurdjevic’s site, the files described above were on there: Sonda_Deset.mp3 and Sun_Max. Despite the error made by Mike Tate when he inserted the links, there was no problem with listening to them online. See this screenshot:
- La page « Sound » du site « Bosnian-pyramid.org » avec les fichiers disponibles et fonctionnels - The "Sound" page on the "Bosnian-Pyramid.org" site, showing available working sound files
The "Sound" page on the "Bosnian-Pyramid.org" site, showing available working sound files.
The reader will recall how we mentioned the controversy that began the day before this screenshot. Keep these file names in mind: Probe deset mp3 (which is the last file in the list) and Sun_max.mp3 (which is the first). They’ll be needed in a while ... Meanwhile, let’s take a step back and plunge once more into the details of the controversy.
Two days after the publication - June 22, 2012 ergo, someone has decoded my files? Fat chance!
Once the news of the article broke, Paolo Debertolis, the SBRG site owner (see para. 3 above), creator of the audio file, placed a rather acrimonious post on the catastrophist Nibiru 2012 site, making a series of statements which we quote in full:
June 21, 2012, 18:04:20 pm
The file published on the Foundation of the Pyramid of the Sun website is not my original file. It seems clear that Osmanagic, when publishing the article under discussion, has fallen into a trap.
If you also bear in mind that the link in the article to the original file does not work, the puzzle falls into place
(NB The only reason that the file was not working was because of an HTML error! – Eclisse ed.)
At this point, it’s clear that, whatever’s going on, it stinks.
Even I myself didn’t get any advance warning about the appearance of such an article.
June 21, 2012, 19:02:58 pm
You don’t have to carry out an exhaustive investigation. It’s enough to note that the sound file on the Foundation website lasts 1:52 minutes, instead of the original 1:32 minutes. What’s the explanation for the 30-second [sic] difference?
Tomorrow I shall write to Osmanagic asking him to pull the article, otherwise I will have to publish an official denial on the SBRG site.
At this point, the Nibiru hangers-on chorus their approval of what Debertolis was proposing to do. The following day (June 22, 2012, according to our screenshot):
June 22, 2012, 00:32:34 am
Thanks, c0git0 and Soupoftheday. Unfortunately, Semir Osmanagic wouldn’t give way, and wants to keep the article up on his board.
All I was offered was an opportunity of posting a letter of criticism on his website.
Clearly, I have no intention of allowing all of our research team’s work and efforts to be treated as if they were of no greater worth than those of some publicity-seeking pseudo-musician.
The article is obviously a hoax, as the links to the original files are the links from Nenad’s site. I believe that Nenad can confirm that he never placed the SBRG sound files on his server.
(As evident from our screenshots, at the precise moment that Debertolis is making this claim, the files are actually sitting on Nenad’s site - Eclisse ed.)
No coincidence that the titles of the fake files are those of the original files found only on the SBRG and Foundation websites. (And Nenad’s site - Eclisse ed.)
In my opinion, an ingenious scam has taken place, using information taken from our published articles, together with dreamed up technical details, to finally come up with a completely bogus file.
Of course, Osmanagic fell for it, hook, line and sinker.
I’ll have to post an official denial on the SBRG site during the next few days.
Back to the future, to 23rd June, 2012, the day after we took the screenshot shown above.
Now Nenad Djurdjevic posts:
June 23, 2012, 14:51:19 pm
Certainly some loser American musician is the last person who’s going to be able to mirabiiiiipusly make any difference to the way things are, or affect Osmanagic’s omnipotence-trip. Recently, in full public view, Osmanagic threw the Encyclopedia Britannica in a rubbish bin because it contained just one obsolete sentence about pyramids.
This sudden move to the Osmanagic camp is just a desperate attempt to push his hypothesis concerning the connection of the ray from the Pyramid of the Sun with "free energy" over any other hypotheses. But you and I know very well that this hypothesis has no scientific foundation.
(NB: Nenad does not confirm Debertolis’ statement that he, Nenad, would never have published those files on his site – Eclisse ed.)
27th June, 2012 – SBRG press release
On 27 June 2012, this press release appears on the SBRG site:
On 19th June 2012, an article, signed by Mike Tate, appeared on the Foundation of the Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun website. Tate claims to have decoded a file recorded by equipment belonging to the SBRG at the summit of the Pyramid of Sun in January 2011 (here).
In the article, the author claims to have downloaded the file from a certain website; the links on that site turn out not to exist. And that’s not all. The site referred to has never uploaded the SBRG sound files onto its server, and has never been authorized to do so (www.bosnian-pyramid.org).
(Nevertheless, our screenshot shows that Nenad’s site had not only published the file, but also that Mike Tate was right on the nail when he says that he downloaded it from Nenad’s site, and not from the SBRG site - Eclisse ed.)
A subsequent examination of the file in question reveals that, even though it bears a title similar to the original SBRG ones, it is very different, perhaps artificially fabricated.
His decipherment, therefore, even if bulging with technical details, is nevertheless the product of fantasy; possibly it’s even intended to discredit the research work undertaken in recent years by the SBRG.
The SBRG therefore distances itself from this operation, which appears to be an out and out fraud.
June 28, 2012 - Mike Tate speaks
In the middle of these cut-and-thrust exchanges, Mike Tate himself surfaced. After making several more posts that remained unanswered, and facing opposition on all sides from the users and administrators of the nibiru_2012.it site, well known for its opposition to good taste and freedom of speech, Tate writes as follows:
June 28, 2012, 20:22:00 pm
I would like to inform everyone that SBRG has removed the Sound file from the internet. The sound file address was at: http://www.bosnian-pyramid.org/storage/sound/Sun_max700Hz_Freqx800x800.mp3 but now it seems the page no longer exists. I have a tab on my computer with that webpage still open, from before they took it off, and I have made screenshots to prove that it was there beyond any doubt. If anyone would like the file that they are trying to hide I am giving it out to anyone who asks for it. Everyone from this website who has emailed me in private can confirm this.
Debertolis answers this as follows:
June 28, 2012, 22:42:09 pm
Well, Mike Tate, so you’ve finally admitted it! You downloaded the file from the SBRG site and not from the www.bosnian-pyramid.org site.
(But this is the complete opposite of what actually happened! The files that Mike Tate claims to have downloaded come from Bosnian-pyramid.org. Surely this couldn’t have escaped Debertolis’ notice? - Eclisse ed.)
You were perfectly aware, therefore, that it was a copyrighted file, because, in order to download it, you must have registered on the part of the site that is not open to the public.
Specifically, you registered on the SBRG site under the name Make Tate [sic], and the user name "MykTayt."
By your own admission, you downloaded the file, and exceeded personal use parameters.
The file under discussion is one recorded under very difficult conditions during a snowstorm on top of the Pyramid of the Sun in February 2011, and subsequently worked on by our technical expert. This is ample proof, therefore, that the file is the property of the SBRG, which has never granted authorization for it to be present on any other website.
(But the screenshot shows that the files were on Nenad’s site all the time! – Eclisse ed.)
After that, you made changes to the file, with a view to re-presenting it under your name, adding modifications of your own, and republishing it on another site, thus running the risk that all our years of work would be put in a very bad light. Do you realize that this is a violation of European law, punishable by criminal or civil prosecution?
I think that, at this point, you’re on a very sticky wicket indeed. Bear in mind, given that you are resident in Poland, that the offence was committed within the European Union.
It’s now also become clear that, after our refusal to cooperate with you – and we still have the emails you sent us, of which, given their tone, we had decided to take no notice - your subsequent actions were carried out in order to discredit the work of the SBRG.
I don’t know who might be behind you, but at this particular moment I couldn’t care less.
Now I, too, am taking steps to protect myself by making a copy of this screenshot, and placing the text of your post in quotes.
At this point, I don’t intend to hold any further correspondence with you. Instead, the research team lawyer will now be dealing with the matter.
I would also take this opportunity of advising you that your account on the SBRG site has been suspended, and that you can no longer access it. Do not attempt to register with a new name, because we would immediately be informed of what was happening, and your legal position would be put at risk.
Out of curiosity, and unable to believe the fact that Debertolis kept saying that the files were not on Nenad’s site, we went to look at this page: http://www.bosnian-pyramid.org/storage/sound/
Incredible but true: on 28th June 2012, this was the situation:
- La page « Sound » du site « bosnian-pyramid.org » à la date du 28 juin 2012, avec le fichier incriminé supprimé - The "Sound" page on the "Bosnian-Pyramid.org" site on 28th June 2012, with the incriminating file removed
The "Sound" page on the "Bosnian-Pyramid.org" site on 28th June 2012, with the incriminating file removed.
The file named Sun_max700Hz_Freqx800x800.mp3, mysteriously removed.
Let’s recap the main points:
1) With the approval of the Bosnian Pyramids Foundation, Mike Tate publishes an article, using some files that he says he downloaded from Nenad Djurdjevic’s Bosnian Pyramid site (and, as we saw, the files actually were on Nenad Djurdjevic’s site).
2) Debertolis accuses Tate of using copyrighted files from the SBRG site, stating that the SBRG has never authorized their publication on Nenad’s website, and that the files have never been present on that site. Yes: you’ve got it in one! Mike Tate was accused of having made "improper use" of Debertolis’ files, Debertolis claiming that the files had never been on bosnian-pyramid.com! However, as we‘ve seen, the files were present, and working, on Nenad’s site, and we made screenshots before the file was removed. While we don’t know the reason for this charade, we can make an educated guess. Of course, if Nenad had uploaded SBRG files without authorization, we would expect Debertolis to send lawyers knocking on his door, too, considering that the files were there all along!
3) Nenad does not openly deny having uploaded those files, but, whether by agreement with Debertolis or not, he removes them. We suspect that there might have been a few shouting-matches going on behind the scenes, but we don’t care to delve too deeply.
4) Debertolis accuses Mike Tate of having tampered with the file, extending it from 1:32 to 1:52 minutes.
On this last point, a few things should be clarified.
In fact, there are at least two versions of the file, probably different recordings, one of 1.32 min. and another of 1.09 min. Links from Internet sites (the reasons for this will be explained in a while):
The 1:09min. version:
The 1.32 min. version developed by c0git0 https://hotfile.com/dl/155279361/951cb55/Sun_max700Hz_Freqx800x800.mp3.html
Now, if you listen to the 1:52 min. file by Tate http://www.piramidasunca.ba/media/k2/attachments/BP_Freq4.wav, you will note how, from the 1.09 min. point, you hear hardly anything until the 1.52 min. point, attributable either to a file creation error, or to some sort of alteration, which has added extra seconds to the 1.09 min. version.
Using Audacity software, we compared the two tracks, identified respectively as Sun_Max70 and BP_Freq4.wav. This is a screenshot:
- Comparaison du fichier de Mike Tate et du fichier original du SBRG. - Comparison of the Mike Tate file with the original SBRG file.
Comparison of the Mike Tate file with the original SBRG file.
As you can see, the two files have the same structure, even if it is clear that the Mike Tate one is different because - as stated by the author - it was subjected to extensive reworking. The two files finish at exactly the same moment, a clear indication that one is the source file, while the other is a reworking. After 1:09 minutes, there is no longer any signal, except for a double clicking sound - indicated by the red circle - a recording of the noise made by a microphone hitting something.
This article was written in various instalments from August 2012 until January 2013. As at November 2012, its conclusion read:
The files on the SBRG site have been removed, so we can’t post a link to them. In this article, http://www.sbresearchgroup.eu/index.php/it/notizie-in-italiano/75-nuove-rilevazioni-della-voce-della-piramide-del-sole you can find links to the relevant sound file, http://www.sbresearchgroup.eu/prova/Sun_max700Hz_Freqx800x800.mp3,
although, for reasons unknown, it is no longer available.
But, on 9th January, 2013, the situation changed yet again.
The link cited above is the same, except that the word / prova / has changed to / immagini /. Additionally, there is a new file, a new voice of the pyramid: http://www.sbresearchgroup.eu/Immagini/Sun_max700Hz_Freqx800x800.mp3.
This file is not long: not1.09 min., nor 1.32 min., but 1.20 min. Luckily, some time before this, we had made an offline copy of that page, and are in a position to demonstrate that, at any given moment, as regards the link just mentioned, there was another file that was removed, and substituted by another file.
We don’t know the reasons for all this to-ing and fro-ing of files and links, but it looks both peculiar and suspicious.
In conclusion, we can state that we still don’t know what Mike Tate actually did, but we do know that he was working from a file made available by the SBRG, not only on their website, but also on many others, such as Nenad’s site and the others for which we included links in this article. The allegations against Mike Tate - that he effectively invented the files - are false, because we have identified the source file and shown that it was present on Nenad’s Bosnian-Pyramid site.
All the subsequent events documented above provide a real insight into the level of transparency that characterizes this research, and the attitude of certain "researchers".
We leave it up to our readers, if they so wish, to form their own judgement of the manner in which certain people have been behaving, as described in this article, and to draw any conclusions that they see fit.
UPDATE 11th January 2013
Unfortunately, even this article is not untouched by disturbing developments.
It transpires that the good Nenad Djurdjevic, or someone very close to him, must have read this article, and seen fit to remove this page: http://www.bosnian-pyramid.org/storage/sound/, which is at present inaccessible. Apparently, we touched a raw nerve.
Fortunately, the screenshots, our offline copy of the site, and Google results - which at the moment of writing are returning over 1 million hits for that page - stand as testimony to the way in which events unfolded.
We suggest to Nenad that he might want to update some of the links leading from his website to that page - such as those contained in this article - or people might be able to spot that there was some form of trickery going on.